Linux in Crisis

[B1ackwater]

Stats for newsgroups available?

This you?
Subject: Re: XanaNews Statistic for comp.os.linux.misc. 9/1/2020

12:15:08 AM

...

You are still posting that spam monthly.

Where?

Subject: XanaNews Statistic for comp.lang.c. 12/1/2020 8:00:46 AM
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2020 15:00:49 -0000 (UTC)
One of four I saw this month.
Elijah
------
shouldn't need to tell you where your spam goes

Then answer this: IS Linus Torvalds the equivalent of Bill Gates?

I am still waiting for the Bearded but still

Personality-wise ... yes. He's an anal-retentive prima-donna.
However, his one important from the Gates model
is that he is content to be Lord Of The Lini - and not Conqueror
Of The Marketplace.

How Gates screwed IBM is how Torvalds is screwing Unix.

Hmmm ... screwing it HOW exactly ???
Seem he continues to defend the free-OS model to the
max AND protect the OS from those who would destroy
it's whole logical structure in persuit of a few bells and
whistles.
Good for Linus.

Gates was ALWAYS In It For The Money - from Altair on.
Everything else was secondary.

Blood profit.

Profit, in and of it self, is not a bad thing. How you GET it,
who you SCREW for it and HOW .... those are other issues.
MS went from being "ok" to being a monster over the years,
rather like Google's new mantra of "... Be Evil". Persuit of
max profit by any means generally leads to evil. Then there
are no excuses.

I DO own the very last thing he is reputed to have personally
written any code for - a little Radio Shack "notebook", years
before real notebooks. Canned apps, acoustic modem, it
is said foreign news reporters loved them because they
ran a long time on regular batteries and with the acoustic
link you could post your story from pretty much anywhere
in the world.

WEll I will BSD my workstation and run
in byhe

bhyve, sorry.

Ummm ... ?que?

Centos
OS/2
Win10
for now.

OS/2 is obsolete, and now Centos. W10 *should* have
died at birth but instead grew into the cyber equivalent
of some destructive mutant Japanese movie monster
that smashes everything in reach.
Did you ever fool with OS-9 back in the day ? There
was a version for the Radio Shack Color Computer.
It is now sold as a RTOS by MicroWare. However it
is very Unix-like under the hood, many say it's much
better at it than real Unix. I conditionally agree. How
about a 64/128 version spiffed into a proper modern OS ? :-)

ArcaOS is now OS/2. As for OS-9, never heard of it.

Young whippersnapper ! :-)

There was a lot of brilliant work in the 70s/80s that never
became hugely popular. It was not for lack of potential or
any flaw in the paradigm, mostly just for lack of $$$ to
promote it to a larger audience.

Time to revisit I think ....

Find the good stuff and AMPLIFY.

[The Doctor]

Post by B1ackwater

Stats for newsgroups available?

This you?
Subject: Re: XanaNews Statistic for comp.os.linux.misc. 9/1/2020

12:15:08 AM

...

You are still posting that spam monthly.

Where?

Subject: XanaNews Statistic for comp.lang.c. 12/1/2020 8:00:46 AM
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2020 15:00:49 -0000 (UTC)
One of four I saw this month.
Elijah
------
shouldn't need to tell you where your spam goes

Then answer this: IS Linus Torvalds the equivalent of Bill Gates?

I am still waiting for the Bearded but still

Personality-wise ... yes. He's an anal-retentive prima-donna.
However, his one important from the Gates model
is that he is content to be Lord Of The Lini - and not Conqueror
Of The Marketplace.

How Gates screwed IBM is how Torvalds is screwing Unix.

Hmmm ... screwing it HOW exactly ???
Seem he continues to defend the free-OS model to the
max AND protect the OS from those who would destroy
it's whole logical structure in persuit of a few bells and
whistles.
Good for Linus.

Gates was ALWAYS In It For The Money - from Altair on.
Everything else was secondary.

Blood profit.

Profit, in and of it self, is not a bad thing. How you GET it,
who you SCREW for it and HOW .... those are other issues.
MS went from being "ok" to being a monster over the years,
rather like Google's new mantra of "... Be Evil". Persuit of
max profit by any means generally leads to evil. Then there
are no excuses.

I DO own the very last thing he is reputed to have personally
written any code for - a little Radio Shack "notebook", years
before real notebooks. Canned apps, acoustic modem, it
is said foreign news reporters loved them because they
ran a long time on regular batteries and with the acoustic
link you could post your story from pretty much anywhere
in the world.

WEll I will BSD my workstation and run
in byhe

bhyve, sorry.

Ummm ... ?que?

Centos
OS/2
Win10
for now.

OS/2 is obsolete, and now Centos. W10 *should* have
died at birth but instead grew into the cyber equivalent
of some destructive mutant Japanese movie monster
that smashes everything in reach.
Did you ever fool with OS-9 back in the day ? There
was a version for the Radio Shack Color Computer.
It is now sold as a RTOS by MicroWare. However it
is very Unix-like under the hood, many say it's much
better at it than real Unix. I conditionally agree. How
about a 64/128 version spiffed into a proper modern OS ? :-)

ArcaOS is now OS/2. As for OS-9, never heard of it.

Young whippersnapper ! :-)
There was a lot of brilliant work in the 70s/80s that never
became hugely popular. It was not for lack of potential or
any flaw in the paradigm, mostly just for lack of $$$ to
promote it to a larger audience.
Time to revisit I think ....
Find the good stuff and AMPLIFY.

Well, E-Bay might have some relics.

[Aragorn]

Post by B1ackwater

Did you ever fool with OS-9 back in the day ? There
was a version for the Radio Shack Color Computer.
It is now sold as a RTOS by MicroWare. However it
is very Unix-like under the hood, many say it's much
better at it than real Unix. I conditionally agree. How
about a 64/128 version spiffed into a proper modern OS ? :-)

ArcaOS is now OS/2. As for OS-9, never heard of it.

Young whippersnapper ! :-)

To be fair, you've misnamed it. OS9 is actually the Classic %ac OS
System 9, but I know that's not what you meant. ;)

You were referring to Plan 9 from Bell Labs, which was developed by
(among others) Dennis Ritchie as a successor to Unix. It's a
distributed operating system — meaning that it basically turns the
entire LAN into a single supercomputer — and it had a (primitive)
graphical user interface by default.

Another difference with Unix was that even the network adapters were
now represented under /dev as device special files, and there was an
additional virtual filesystem to /proc, mounted at /net.

As I understand it, Plan 9 is now available as Open Source, but beyond
use in a cluster of virtual machines as a toy, it's not really usable
for anything else in this day and age. It's a pity though, because it
sure was an interesting operating system. But then again, so was the
idea behind GNU/HURD.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd

[The Doctor]

Post by Aragorn

Post by B1ackwater

Did you ever fool with OS-9 back in the day ? There
was a version for the Radio Shack Color Computer.
It is now sold as a RTOS by MicroWare. However it
is very Unix-like under the hood, many say it's much
better at it than real Unix. I conditionally agree. How
about a 64/128 version spiffed into a proper modern OS ? :-)

ArcaOS is now OS/2. As for OS-9, never heard of it.

Young whippersnapper ! :-)

To be fair, you've misnamed it. OS9 is actually the Classic %ac OS
System 9, but I know that's not what you meant. ;)
You were referring to Plan 9 from Bell Labs, which was developed by
(among others) Dennis Ritchie as a successor to Unix. It's a
distributed operating system — meaning that it basically turns the
entire LAN into a single supercomputer — and it had a (primitive)
graphical user interface by default.
Another difference with Unix was that even the network adapters were
now represented under /dev as device special files, and there was an
additional virtual filesystem to /proc, mounted at /net.
As I understand it, Plan 9 is now available as Open Source, but beyond
use in a cluster of virtual machines as a toy, it's not really usable
for anything else in this day and age. It's a pity though, because it
sure was an interesting operating system. But then again, so was the
idea behind GNU/HURD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd
--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

Either way or, it would be nice for Plan-9 to go open source.

[Bud Frede]

Post by Aragorn

Post by B1ackwater

Did you ever fool with OS-9 back in the day ? There
was a version for the Radio Shack Color Computer.
It is now sold as a RTOS by MicroWare. However it
is very Unix-like under the hood, many say it's much
better at it than real Unix. I conditionally agree. How
about a 64/128 version spiffed into a proper modern OS ? :-)

ArcaOS is now OS/2. As for OS-9, never heard of it.

Young whippersnapper ! :-)

To be fair, you've misnamed it. OS9 is actually the Classic %ac OS
System 9, but I know that's not what you meant. ;)
You were referring to Plan 9 from Bell Labs, which was developed by
(among others) Dennis Ritchie as a successor to Unix. It's a
distributed operating system — meaning that it basically turns the
entire LAN into a single supercomputer — and it had a (primitive)
graphical user interface by default.

No, OS-9 is something else entirely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9

There was also OS/8. I've been told that Gary Kildall was familiar with
OS/8 and got some of the ideas for CP/M from it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/8

[The Doctor]

Post by Bud Frede

Post by Aragorn

Post by B1ackwater

Did you ever fool with OS-9 back in the day ? There
was a version for the Radio Shack Color Computer.
It is now sold as a RTOS by MicroWare. However it
is very Unix-like under the hood, many say it's much
better at it than real Unix. I conditionally agree. How
about a 64/128 version spiffed into a proper modern OS ? :-)

ArcaOS is now OS/2. As for OS-9, never heard of it.

Young whippersnapper ! :-)

To be fair, you've misnamed it. OS9 is actually the Classic %ac OS
System 9, but I know that's not what you meant. ;)
You were referring to Plan 9 from Bell Labs, which was developed by
(among others) Dennis Ritchie as a successor to Unix. It's a
distributed operating system — meaning that it basically turns the
entire LAN into a single supercomputer — and it had a (primitive)
graphical user interface by default.

No, OS-9 is something else entirely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
There was also OS/8. I've been told that Gary Kildall was familiar with
OS/8 and got some of the ideas for CP/M from it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/8

Love the history around here.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Bud Frede
Gary Kildall was familiar with
OS/8 and got some of the ideas for CP/M from it.

Not according to wiki

"Gary Kildall originally developed CP/M during 1974, as an operating
system to run on an Intel Intellec-8 development system, equipped with a
Shugart Associates 8-inch floppy disk drive interfaced via a custom
floppy disk controller. It was written in Kildall's own PL/M
(Programming Language for Microcomputers). Various aspects of CP/M were
influenced by the TOPS-10 operating system of the DECsystem-10 mainframe
computer, which Kildall had used as a development environment."

I heard that the CP/M disk FAT style structure that was aped in PCDOS
was actually the format that the Intellec 8 system used. I have twice
written code to access such structures and it is actually surprisingly
easy.

If only he hadn't been out playing golf when IBM called...

[John Gardner]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Bud Frede
Gary Kildall was familiar with
OS/8 and got some of the ideas for CP/M from it.

Not according to wiki
"Gary Kildall originally developed CP/M during 1974, as an operating
system to run on an Intel Intellec-8 development system, equipped with a
Shugart Associates 8-inch floppy disk drive interfaced via a custom
floppy disk controller. It was written in Kildall's own PL/M
(Programming Language for Microcomputers). Various aspects of CP/M were
influenced by the TOPS-10 operating system of the DECsystem-10 mainframe
computer, which Kildall had used as a development environment."
I heard that the CP/M disk FAT style structure that was aped in PCDOS
was actually the format that the Intellec 8 system used. I have twice
written code to access such structures and it is actually surprisingly
easy.
If only he hadn't been out playing golf when IBM called...

The story was that Kidall went flying his glider, but the source of that
story was Bill Gates so I wouldn’t put too much faith in that. Reality is
that Gary thought he was the only game in town and wanted too much money.
PC DOS sold for $40 a copy and CP/M-86 would set you back $240. Greed was
the problem.

[Aragorn]

Post by John Gardner
The story was that Kidall went flying his glider, but the source of
that story was Bill Gates so I wouldn’t put too much faith in that.
Reality is that Gary thought he was the only game in town and wanted
too much money. PC DOS sold for $40 a copy and CP/M-86 would set you
back $240. Greed was the problem.

That's one way of looking at it, but the history books have it that
Kildall and his wife insisted on a royalties-based licensing while IBM
wanted to retain full control.

Also, MS-DOS was just the rebranded 86DOS (or QDOS, for "Quick & Dirty
Operating System) by Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer, and 86-DOS was
essentially a not very legal and somewhat crippled 16-bit rewrite of
CP/M. Considering the legally dubious nature of 86DOS, Paterson had no
real use for it, and when Gates found out about it, he bought the full
rights to 86DOS from Paterson for USD $63'000, offered Paterson a job
at Microsoft, and told IBM that he had what they were looking for.

[The Doctor]

Post by Aragorn

Post by John Gardner
The story was that Kidall went flying his glider, but the source of
that story was Bill Gates so I wouldn’t put too much faith in that.
Reality is that Gary thought he was the only game in town and wanted
too much money. PC DOS sold for $40 a copy and CP/M-86 would set you
back $240. Greed was the problem.

That's one way of looking at it, but the history books have it that
Kildall and his wife insisted on a royalties-based licensing while IBM
wanted to retain full control.
Also, MS-DOS was just the rebranded 86DOS (or QDOS, for "Quick & Dirty
Operating System) by Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer, and 86-DOS was
essentially a not very legal and somewhat crippled 16-bit rewrite of
CP/M. Considering the legally dubious nature of 86DOS, Paterson had no
real use for it, and when Gates found out about it, he bought the full
rights to 86DOS from Paterson for USD $63'000, offered Paterson a job
at Microsoft, and told IBM that he had what they were looking for.

Gates is a thief! Again must watch Pirates of Silicon Valley.

Post by Aragorn
--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

[The Doctor]

Post by John Gardner

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Bud Frede
Gary Kildall was familiar with
OS/8 and got some of the ideas for CP/M from it.

Not according to wiki
"Gary Kildall originally developed CP/M during 1974, as an operating
system to run on an Intel Intellec-8 development system, equipped with a
Shugart Associates 8-inch floppy disk drive interfaced via a custom
floppy disk controller. It was written in Kildall's own PL/M
(Programming Language for Microcomputers). Various aspects of CP/M were
influenced by the TOPS-10 operating system of the DECsystem-10 mainframe
computer, which Kildall had used as a development environment."
I heard that the CP/M disk FAT style structure that was aped in PCDOS
was actually the format that the Intellec 8 system used. I have twice
written code to access such structures and it is actually surprisingly
easy.
If only he hadn't been out playing golf when IBM called...

The story was that Kidall went flying his glider, but the source of that
story was Bill Gates so I wouldn’t put too much faith in that. Reality is
that Gary thought he was the only game in town and wanted too much money.
PC DOS sold for $40 a copy and CP/M-86 would set you back $240. Greed was
the problem.

Lying Gates for you. Must watch Pirates of Silicon Valley.

[Christopher Conforti]

Post by Aragorn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd

Wikipedia--HISSSS!!! :-)

Just link to the project pages, please don't feed that revisionist
hellhole more bandwidth.

https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/

https://9p.io/plan9/

[25.BX943]

Post by Christopher Conforti

Post by Aragorn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd

Wikipedia--HISSSS!!! :-)
Just link to the project pages, please don't feed that revisionist
hellhole more bandwidth.
https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/
https://9p.io/plan9/

Oh ... WP ain't THAT bad. You just need the power to
smell when somebody is trying to sell you on some
product or perspective .... but then these days
anyone without a functional BS detector is doomed
regardless.

Plan-9 really ain't a bad OS ... it's no toy, it was
built to do real work.

But I'd rather see an open-source continuation
of VMS .....